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#1098 - 09/25/05 02:47 PM 20" AR
Edwin Offline
Plinker

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 260
Loc: Georgia, USA
Just wanted to share a couple of pics of my new 20" AR. Government profile, 1/7 twist, chrome lined 4150 MP inspected barrel mounted in a M4 CMG upper receiver, LaRue Tactical 13.2 rail and low profile gas block, Bushmaster lower with LMT 2-stage trigger & LMT new generation stock, M16 carrier and LMT enhanced bolt, TA31F ACOG/LaRue Tactical mount, ambi safety & mag release and Troy flip up front and rear iron sights.
In this age of 16" and shorter ARs, this lightweight high muzzle velocity blaster is something a little different.




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#1099 - 09/25/05 04:06 PM Re: 20" AR
SAWBONES Offline
Operator

Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 2045
Loc: The third dimension
Very nice indeed!
I agree that you don't see many 20" AR rifles anymore. Nonetheless,the original M16 barrel length was 20", and that length is probably optimal for getting adequately-higher velocity out of the 55-70gr bulleted 5.56 rounds.

I won't even own an AR with a shorter barrel than 16".
These M4 and shorter (10-14") guns are giving up way too much velocity, especially with heavier (60-80gr) bullets, basically emasculating the none-too-potent-to-begin-with 5.56x45 round.
You get more penetration, but with little .22 caliber wound holes.
The original version of The Black Gun (as the Viet Cong referred to it), produced surprisingly aggressive wounds due to the high velocity-induced tendency for bullets to upset violently on impact, with reports of near-severing of limbs and instant incapacitation of "gooks" with torso hits.

This doesn't occur now. The modern US military seems to have a tendency to FUBAR their weapons systems, witness the switch from .45ACP in the 1911 sidearm to 9mm in the M9.
And instead of keeping the AR-pattern rifle as it was when first fielded in the early '60s in Viet Nam, they've tried to obtain too many things at once (deep penetration, including penetration of intermediate barriers, high wounding capacity and long range), and not succeeded, of course.
The rifle is actually less effective in its current form than when first introduced.

With a 1-in-7 twist, I'd guess you're shooting heavier bullets only. I actually think the AR platform works best with somewhat lighter (40-55gr) bullets at a slower (1-in-9) twist, but that's JMNSHO.
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#1100 - 09/25/05 04:23 PM Re: 20" AR
SAWBONES Offline
Operator

Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 2045
Loc: The third dimension
BTW, your setup is almost identical to what I have on a 16" Bushy, except for a Douglas Defense handguard-rail setp, an Ultor (Vltor) collapsible sniper stock, and a switchable quick-detach EOTech or Shepherd varmint scope.
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#1101 - 09/25/05 04:57 PM Re: 20" AR
Edwin Offline
Plinker

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 260
Loc: Georgia, USA
I wanted a 20" for muzzle velocity and fragmentation range with the heavier ammo.

With 75 grain TAP ammo the frag range is a little over 200 yards, far superior to the 130 yards of the 55 grain and 62 grain rounds which will also see use in this rifle, and also offers superior accuracy.
For a combat weapon, anything other than a government profile 20" is too heavy.

I agree, the shorter than 16" weapons give up way too much muzzle velocity, my 14.5" Bushmaster 1/9 has a frag range of only 85 yards with Q3131A 55 grain ammo.

But at least this is superior to the pathetic 65 yards when used with the currently issued M855 ball which fragments inconsistently at best and is the reason for so many negative posts about the poor stopping power, it's not the gun, but the bullet construction.

However, a 14.5" when used with 68 grain OTM the frag range is extended to over 100 yards, and 77 grain 556 (1/7 twist) will frag consistently to a distance of 145 yards! That's a heck of a difference.
From a 16" the 77 556 load is good to 170 yards, and the 75 grain TAP 223 load to 150.

Reports from Iraq and Afghanistan by soldiers using the heavier OTM rounds in 14.5" to 20" are overwhelmingly positive in their performance even out past 200 yards.

If I was Bill Gates, I'd order 5 billion USD in 75 & 77 grain Nato loadings, and forward it to US combat units across the globe.

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#1102 - 09/25/05 05:15 PM Re: 20" AR
SAWBONES Offline
Operator

Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 2045
Loc: The third dimension
The Hornady TAP ammo is generally excellent, but very expensive.

The standard M855 ball issue load being used by the US military gives very poor overall performance, I agree.
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#1103 - 09/25/05 05:46 PM Re: 20" AR
yugo308guy Offline
Operator

Registered: 12/13/03
Posts: 1941
Loc: columbus ohio
Very nice indeed Edwin, although my personal preference is your LMT MRP with the 18", very cool!
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Originally posted by p7newbie:
if I were buying used, I'd feel better with a Grade A PSP

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#1104 - 09/25/05 05:52 PM Re: 20" AR
RTAB1 Offline
Operator

Registered: 12/20/01
Posts: 1650
Loc: MN
Way nice. What sling adapter is that on your collapsible stock?
_________________________
This is starting to get really expensive.

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#1105 - 09/25/05 08:40 PM Re: 20" AR
Edwin Offline
Plinker

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 260
Loc: Georgia, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by RTAB1:
Way nice. What sling adapter is that on your collapsible stock?
It's a GG&G, but the Midwest Industries is also a good one for this pattern stock.

I'm still waiting on a KAC M4 receiver end plate QD sling mount and a Hogue grip (I use these on all my lowers and an ambi safety & mag release) and haven't decided on a stock.

I'll probably "borrow" the LMT Crane stock off my LMT MRP and I'll also use the Vltor off my A2 14.5" to make a decision. No chance of an A1 or A2 stock, this is a combat weapon and variable LOP is essential.
Since they all use milspec buffer tubes swapping them around is very easy.
Since I really don't want to spend another $200 on a LMT Crane, I'm leaning toward a Vltor Clubfoot in OD green to match the rail covers and break up the outline of the weapon.
What do you guys think?

I'm on vacation this week, so I'll get plenty of opportunity to try them out while the P7s are cooling on the pistol range next door to the rifle range.

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#1106 - 11/26/05 07:12 PM Re: 20" AR
Edwin Offline
Plinker

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 260
Loc: Georgia, USA
Just wanted to show you AR fans how my 20" was finished up.
ACOG TA31F for general use, Nightforce NSX 3.5-15X50 when a little more magnification is in order.

Went with the LMT stock, a new RRA lower with 2 stage NM trigger group, the Hogue grip of course, ambi safety and mag releases, and a LaRue Tactical
SPR-E scope mount for the NSX.
It shoots like a dream with the government profile chrome lined barrel, and prints a MOA or better group with Hornady or Black Hills 75 grain ammo.
Plus, with the ACOG and an empty 20 rounder, it's only about 8.5 lbs.
I installed a KAC 600m rear sight to go with the Troy front, and with the longish LT rail, shooting iron sights on this rifle is a dream even with my poor vision.




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#1107 - 03/31/06 06:55 PM Re: 20" AR
Edwin Offline
Plinker

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 260
Loc: Georgia, USA
I finally went and slapped the green furniture on my 20".
How's it look?





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#1108 - 05/01/06 04:36 PM Re: 20" AR
Mathew Offline
Operator

Registered: 07/21/02
Posts: 2197
Loc: Northern VA.
Alright. I'm here to liven this side of the forums as I just became the owner of an AR-15.... finally.

Let me just say Edwin...

Daaaamn.
_________________________
"Do this. Don't do that. Stay back in line. Where's tax receipt? Fill out form. Let's see license. Submit six copies. Exit only. No left turn. No right turn. Queue up and pay fine. Take back and get stamped. Drop dead— but first get permit." -Robert Heinlein

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#1109 - 06/07/06 03:07 PM Re: 20" AR
Edwin Offline
Plinker

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 260
Loc: Georgia, USA
Well thanks, Mathew, I'm glad you like it.

I finally gave my girlfriend back her TA31F ACOG and slapped my new TA55 on the 20".

For this rifle, it's the perfect optic, BDC tracking on M855 green tip all the way to 800 yards and useable with my stock of Q3131A (within an inch to 450 yards and 2" low at 500, 10" low at 600).


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#1110 - 06/07/06 07:07 PM Re: 20" AR
RTAB1 Offline
Operator

Registered: 12/20/01
Posts: 1650
Loc: MN
My girlfriend's ACOG. Not something you normally hear. wink

PS: LMT was great to work with. Already have the new BUIS (and all its parts) in hand. Waiting for my Ammoman Lake City XM193 to arrive to zero it.
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This is starting to get really expensive.

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