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#127725 - 01/13/02 01:20 PM Re: Took the 'twins' out (w/ pics!)
garrettwc Offline
Member

Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 335
Loc: Midwest
You're welcome. And FWIW the Seal was a jerk. He had the shiner coming.

Quote:
newbie shim

Explain please, I missed that one in your vocabulary enrichment thread.

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#127726 - 01/13/02 04:58 PM Re: Took the 'twins' out (w/ pics!)
p7newbie Offline
Operator

Registered: 03/02/01
Posts: 11040
Loc: Handgun Control Inc.
I'm glad that is all cleared up....I watched with much anticipation the explanations of my post...I would have posted it myself but then, that would be like laughing at your own joke...goes against my nature....good shooting Front sight....please keep us abreast of your skills with those guns....nines are so much more fun that 38s...ta ta for now.....
_________________________
holster by www.delfatti.com
Official leather of the Cult.

10 day waiting period? But I'm mad now!

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#127727 - 01/13/02 08:31 PM Re: Took the 'twins' out (w/ pics!)
FrontSight Offline
P7 Vixen

Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 692
Brat!
_________________________
www.HideAwayKnife.com

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#127728 - 01/13/02 10:45 PM Re: Took the 'twins' out (w/ pics!)
p7newbie Offline
Operator

Registered: 03/02/01
Posts: 11040
Loc: Handgun Control Inc.
You can't spell brat without bra.....
_________________________
holster by www.delfatti.com
Official leather of the Cult.

10 day waiting period? But I'm mad now!

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#127729 - 01/14/02 08:10 PM Re: Took the 'twins' out (w/ pics!)
HKRich Offline
Plinker

Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 345
Is there someone around that can let you shoot one with the Pierce extension on it? I shot one both ways and I agree that it has an influence. Give it a shot?
- - Rich

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#127730 - 01/20/02 12:30 AM Re: Took the 'twins' out (w/ pics!)
FrontSight Offline
P7 Vixen

Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 692
WaltherP99man, I'm back and I measured the groups.

All distances = 15'.

Best groups were 18 rounds @ 1.25" and 27 rounds @ 1.5", done with a P7M8.

All groups were <= 2.25".

Noticed something I hadn't before until I measured them: My P7M8 groups were all tighter than my P7M13 groups.

FrontSight
_________________________
www.HideAwayKnife.com

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#127731 - 01/20/02 01:35 AM Re: Took the 'twins' out (w/ pics!)
garrettwc Offline
Member

Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 335
Loc: Midwest
Looking at the time on your post I hope you had something better to do on a Saturday night than measure groups. wink

Sub 2" groups with the best ones sub 1.25"! Like I said before pretty impressive Frontsight. I gotta practice more, especially the DA first shot. It is usually my flier.
Quote:
Noticed something I hadn't before until I measured them: My P7M8 groups were all tighter than my P7M13 groups

You're not the first person I have heard say that about the P7s. I think the extra thickness for the 13rd mag throws it off just enough.

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#127732 - 01/20/02 09:12 AM Re: Took the 'twins' out (w/ pics!)
Stephen Offline
Grand Poobah

Registered: 12/08/99
Posts: 3795
Loc: Dallas, Texas
I'm the opposite... My groups are tighter with my M13 than with my M8.
_________________________
--Stephen
Keeper of the Tactical Handi Wipes

"...I could talk about industrialization and men's fashions all day, but I'm afraid work must intrude..."
Hans Gruber from Die Hard

The Cult of The P7 Fair and Balanced: "You report, we decide."

Ass seen in April 2004 SWAT Magazine.

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#127733 - 01/20/02 09:59 AM Re: Took the 'twins' out (w/ pics!)
FrontSight Offline
P7 Vixen

Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 692
Quote:
WaltherP99man:
Looking at the time on your post I hope you had something better to do on a Saturday night than measure groups. wink

Hey, that was a very a fun Sat night! It's great to be back home. Traveling alone in the US can be lonely. We had just returned from the late movie and I was tidying while everyone was yapping. I made them iced latte decafs w/ Baileys (total yum!).

Quote:
WaltherP99man:
I gotta practice more, especially the DA first shot. It is usually my flier.

Suggestion: I believe Brian Enos says in his book that getting the sight picture is not the hard thing; it is not disturbing the sight picture at the moment the hammer falls that requires skill. That is the instant when you have to be aware of your sight picture.

One experiment that helped make me get faster (aka less slow) w/ out losing accuracy is for 10 rounds or so, just take just a ‘loose’ sight picture until you think the hammer is going to drop. Then, make sure the sight picture is there.

This is something I have to think harder about with my Airweight than the P7. On my Airweight:

1) The trigger pull seems to telegraph everything that is going on internally, which can lead to anticipation (I don't say the f-word; bad reinforcement) after 10 rounds or so.
2) There is not really enough distance between the trigger and the back of the grip for me, which results in a more awkward trigger squeeze.

Quote:
WaltherP99man:
I think the extra thickness for the 13rd mag throws it off just enough.


Inherent to the gun or to the shooter?

Unless I had measured it, I would not have noticed the difference in group sizes.

FrontSight

[ 01-20-2002: Message edited by: FrontSight ]
_________________________
www.HideAwayKnife.com

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#127734 - 01/20/02 11:05 AM Re: Took the 'twins' out (w/ pics!)
garrettwc Offline
Member

Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 335
Loc: Midwest
Quote:
Originally posted by FrontSight:


Inherent to the gun or to the shooter?

Unless I had measured it, I would not have noticed the difference in group sizes.

FrontSight

[ 01-20-2002: Message edited by: FrontSight ]

Combination of the two. The theory is the thicker grip opens your hand up just enough to let the gun move more. Of course, Stephen posted that his does just the opposite so that kind of pokes holes in it.

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#127735 - 01/20/02 03:36 PM Re: Took the 'twins' out (w/ pics!)
p7newbie Offline
Operator

Registered: 03/02/01
Posts: 11040
Loc: Handgun Control Inc.
Hmmm...looks like a call to Hk is in order....

[ 01-20-2002: Message edited by: p7newbie ]
_________________________
holster by www.delfatti.com
Official leather of the Cult.

10 day waiting period? But I'm mad now!

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#127736 - 01/20/02 03:41 PM Re: Took the 'twins' out (w/ pics!)
p7newbie Offline
Operator

Registered: 03/02/01
Posts: 11040
Loc: Handgun Control Inc.
I spoke with an Hk engineer, Ernst Hillstaker, who told me the M8 is slightly more accurate than the M13. He added that the M13 was designed after numerous requests from people who couldn't shoot the M8 well and figured the extra 5 rounds would give them a slight edge...
_________________________
holster by www.delfatti.com
Official leather of the Cult.

10 day waiting period? But I'm mad now!

Top
#127737 - 01/20/02 07:52 PM Re: Took the 'twins' out (w/ pics!)
FrontSight Offline
P7 Vixen

Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 692
Quote:
Originally posted by Stephen:
I'm the opposite... My groups are tighter with my M13 than with my M8.


May I ask you a personal question? [seriously...]

How long is your hand measured from bottom middle of palm to tip of index finger?

[reproving tone] Newb, behave yourself. [/reproving tone]

FrontSight
_________________________
www.HideAwayKnife.com

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#127738 - 01/20/02 08:11 PM Re: Took the 'twins' out (w/ pics!)
Larry W. Offline
Member

Registered: 11/06/01
Posts: 102
Loc: Cupertino, CA
Quote:
Originally posted by FrontSight:
reproving tone] Newb, behave yourself. [/reproving tone]


You two sound like perfect for eachother, when's the wedding?

...that would be an interesting wedding gift list: 12 cases 9MM ammo, matching P7 holsters, his and hers cleaning kits, MP5...

smile

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#127739 - 01/21/02 08:57 AM Re: Took the 'twins' out (w/ pics!)
Stephen Offline
Grand Poobah

Registered: 12/08/99
Posts: 3795
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Quote:
Originally posted by FrontSight:

How long is your hand measured from bottom middle of palm to tip of index finger?


It's about 7-3/8"
_________________________
--Stephen
Keeper of the Tactical Handi Wipes

"...I could talk about industrialization and men's fashions all day, but I'm afraid work must intrude..."
Hans Gruber from Die Hard

The Cult of The P7 Fair and Balanced: "You report, we decide."

Ass seen in April 2004 SWAT Magazine.

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