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#880 - 01/27/08 07:20 AM MSAR?
curlybeast Offline
Member

Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 167
Loc: Hilliard, Oh.
Has anyone had any experience with this AUG clone. What is the fit and finish of these weapons? Do they use a common mag? Any advice is apreciated. Paul

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#881 - 01/27/08 08:08 AM Re: MSAR?
RTAB1 Offline
Operator

Registered: 12/20/01
Posts: 1650
Loc: MN
Dorian can weigh in on this one. It is one sweet rifle. Shoots like a dream and the scope really helped. I couldn't see the irons but that is just me.
_________________________
This is starting to get really expensive.

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#882 - 01/27/08 09:25 AM Re: MSAR?
RandyW Offline
Member

Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 694
Loc: Bumpus Mills, TN
Yep, bought one of the limited edition green sets with the case, mags, serialed knife, sling, yada yada.

LOVE this rifle. It's put together like a Swiss watch and runs like one. Without a doubt one of the nicest fitted rifles I have seen and certainly the best military type for fit and finish that I have seen, makes my HK-93 look like it's made out of plumbing pipe. They even have the MSAR dagger marking inside on parts that aren't seen unless you strip the rifle. They use a propriatary mag. It looks just like the AUG mag but has a few differences so an AUG mag will not work in the MSAR without a little dremel work (you have to cut notches in a couple of the AUG mags ridges, the difference in the MSAR and AUG mag is the MSAR already has the notches cut) but the MSAR mags will work in AUG's. Good news is the MSAR mags are cheaper than buying AUG mags anyway. They may be in a little short supply as it's a new rifle but they can be found. I got 12 30 rounders for $28 each from Northwest Tactical. I have heard the 42 rounders have had some feeding problems but I don't know that's true. I don't use any but the 30's. IMO the 42 is too long. My set came with 10, 20, 30, and 42 round mags. The mags are really well made, including internal ridges that keep the rounds from moving around. Much better made than GI AR mags.

The rifle has a 16" barrel and is like having a SBR without the hassle of paperwork or tax. They have the longer barrel and will make a conversion kit for one of the 6mm rounds (don't remember which one, 6.5 or 6.8 but it's shown on MSAR'S website), they may already be selling them. They are also making an integral surpressed barrel for it. Barrel is removable like the AUG. It's a little heavier than a stripped AR carbine but all the extra weight is in the butt so it's not noticed. From a front sling it just rotates into your shoulder and comes on target. Perfect rifle for three gun matches. The scope is nice. It's 1.5X so good for close work. It also can be removed and they make a picatinny rail top to replace the scope and put what you want on it.

When the rifle first came out they had some limited problems with feeding. It didn't effect every rifle but MSAR recalled ALL rifles before a certain serial and fixed them at their expense, even if it wasn't having problems. All the rifles after the effected serial have the upgrades and work fine. I think all the effected rifles have already been sold so new ones are set. Again the website gives good info.

I had one problem with mine. The scope would not adjust for elevation. Called MSAR customer relations and they asked me to send it back on their dime, fixed the scope and had it back to me within a week. They even zeroed it to the distance I told them I was trying to zero. I wanted a 300mtr combat zero and when the scope came back it was one click off elevation and windage! They even wrote a personal note saying what they had done. Not bad service, as a SIGARMS 556 owner they blow SIG CS out of the water. The owner of MSAR is so set on making things right he put his personal cellphone number on the website if you have any problems.

The trigger is stiff to say the least. Typical bullpup. I bought a "Trigger Tamer" for an AUG (Google trigger tamer) that dropped right in and cut the pull by a third. It's still not a match trigger by any means but about on par with stock AR's.

Things I don't like? I could do without the forward assist. I'm not a fan of them anyway but the MSAR's sticks me right in the middle of the chest when slung up. Not a problem with a vest on but a pain without a chest rig. I don't like the Wilderness three point my kit came with. I don't like 3 points and it just is not the best choice for this rifle. I put a VCAS on mine. Also didn't like the fact that although you can put a side rail on the rifle it doesn't come with the rifle and just has open screw holes. To me it makes it look unfinished. Even though I don't like to put crap on my rifles I bought a 6" rail to cover up the holes. Should have come with the rifle IMO. Other than that it's the perfect assualt rifle IMO.

Advice? As you can tell I like the rifle. Buy one before the word gets out. If you can swing the extra money check out one of the limited edition sets. When I looked at them the rifles were selling for around $2000 with a ten round mag. I got my set on GunBroker for $2500 shipped but got 4 mags, the Pelican fitted case, the MSAR Currahee (SP?) knife serialed to the rifle and sling. The case and knife alone are worth more than $500.

Check out this forum for some insight. It's not very well populated and many of the bitches are from the early introduction days but it does have some good info and contacts, as well as MSAR just announced a new limited edition tactical version of the rifle...

http://microtalk.org/

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#883 - 01/27/08 08:51 PM Re: MSAR?
Dorian Offline
Sharp Shooter

Registered: 10/12/03
Posts: 808
Loc: Minneapolis / St. Paul MN.
Hi Paul,

Yes I have one of the limited edition black ones.
As far as the fit and finish goes, mine & the few others that I've seen are very nice.
As Randy said it uses a proprietary mag.
The best advice I could give is find one to shoot for yourself, but be prepared to buy it once you do they are just that nice.

Dorian
_________________________
"The penalty that good men pay for not being interested in politics is to be governed by men worse than themselves. -Plato, philosopher (427-347 BCE)"

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#884 - 01/28/08 02:30 PM Re: MSAR?
curlybeast Offline
Member

Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 167
Loc: Hilliard, Oh.
I guess i'm on the hunt now. Thanks for the imformation. Just what I wanted to hear. smile

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#885 - 01/28/08 09:37 PM Re: MSAR?
Edwin Offline
Plinker

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 260
Loc: Georgia, USA
I like the fact that it has left or right ejection like the original.

The AXR Aug clone is supposed to be coming with this feature after the first run, but does take AR-15 mags.

I'l be watching both of these closely, but I must have ejection for a lefty.

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#886 - 01/29/08 09:26 AM Re: MSAR?
Sloan441 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 74
I'd be careful of this one. Reports of the gun aren't universally glowing. Quite the opposite, really. One guy over on XCRforums has one and it seems pretty decent. I've read of at least half a dozen others that had serious FTF/FTE issues on several other venues.

This gun isn't an AUG. It's a lookalike; not even a clone. It has a number of proprietary parts, not the least of which is the magazine. Your ONLY source of mags will be Microtech. It does not have total parts interchangability with the AUG (which irritates me no end; I need a more reliable AUG parts source myself).

Lastly, this thing ain't cheap. You can buy a USR or an AUG for only a few hundred more dollars than this gun. AUGs work. This thing, well, you're rolling the dice with a lot of money riding on that roll.

Kent's gun--the AXR--is still an unknown quantity. We'll see how that one turns out, but I"m hoping for a better showing than the MSAR (I need parts!). Personally, I'd wait for AXR reports or just buy an AUG.

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#887 - 01/30/08 08:49 AM Re: MSAR?
RandyW Offline
Member

Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 694
Loc: Bumpus Mills, TN
Quote:
Originally posted by Sloan441:
I'd be careful of this one. Reports of the gun aren't universally glowing.
And they never are, there are plenty of people that don't like AR's, AK's, you name it and you can find people that don't like it. You can't please all the people all the time.

Quote:
One guy over on XCRforums has one and it seems pretty decent. I've read of at least half a dozen others that had serious FTF/FTE issues on several other venues.
The FTF/FTE problems were well documented, including extensively on MSAR's website and their forum. The problems were with the first batch of black limited edition rifles, which were all recalled and modified. The green and tan limited edition rifles as well as the individual rifles all have the updates as they were released after the problem was documented. Most of the failures involved Wolf lacquer cased ammo or very off brands that may have been underpowered. MSAR fixed them all regardless. Reports after the recall seem to indicate that the FTF/FTE problems are a thing of the past, although MSAR says on their website that they are still looking into the Wolf issue. You need to look at the dates of the problem reports, unless they are recent they may well have been with the first batch rifles. Talk with CURRENT owners of POST recall rifles. Basing a decision on a few negatives out of how many rifles is short sighted, especially when the documented problems have been addressed. Sort of like the guys that STILL bring up the early issues from the '60's of M-16 problems.

Quote:
This gun isn't an AUG. It's a lookalike; not even a clone. It has a number of proprietary parts, not the least of which is the magazine. Your ONLY source of mags will be Microtech. It does not have total parts interchangability with the AUG (which irritates me no end; I need a more reliable AUG parts source myself).
Correct in that it is not an AUG nor is it a direct clone, it was designed to be an improvement, and yes it does have many proprietary parts, however many of the parts from the MSAR are close enough to drop in and work in the AUG. MSAR is actually working on a list of the interchangeable parts so if you are looking for cheap AUG spares keep an eye out on MSAR's website. The trigger pack does drop in and work in the AUG. Parts interchangeablitily doesn't seem to go the other way around, AUG parts seem to not work in the MSAR without modification, although they seem to be close enough that minor mods will make them work. Not an issue because as you point out AUG spares are thin on the ground and expensive, yet the MSAR will be supported, in fact Microtech say they are shutting down knife production for awhile to concentrate on making rifles.

Only source of mags is MSAR? Not quite. The mags are proprietary but AUG mags WILL work in the MSAR with slight modification. It involves notching two of the horizontal ribs at the top of the AUG mag with a file or dremel. Takes a couple of minutes if that and has been well documented. Again not an issue as the MSAR mags are available and cheaper than AUG mags, so why buy AUG? BTW the MSAR mags work in an AUG with no modification.

Quote:
Lastly, this thing ain't cheap. You can buy a USR or an AUG for only a few hundred more dollars than this gun. AUGs work. This thing, well, you're rolling the dice with a lot of money riding on that roll.
Very few quality rifles are these days. Paid almost as much for my SIGARMS 556, and way more for my pre-ban HK-93, which isn't made half as well as the MSAR. MSAR is selling for about what an FN FS2000 goes for, which is the only other bullpup available outside of a few collectables like FAMAS that will run over 10K easily. BTW if you can point to an AUG or USR that is running a "few hundred more" than the MSAR (I bought my limited edition for $2500 shipped but it had all the extras, current prices for rifle alone runs around $2000 from dealers) please pass it on. All the AUG's and USR's I have seen recently are going for over $2000 if not well north of that, and BTW, they are used and you are generally paying for the rifle by itself and a mag or two.

AUG's work, so do the MSAR's. All new rifles have teething problems, so did the AUG when it was first fielded. Look at the SA80 British bullpup, it was so bad they had to hire HK to fix the thing, now it's considered a great rifle. Few if any rifles that I can name didn't have problems when first fielded, yet many of them go on to be reliable for long service lives.

Quote:
Kent's gun--the AXR--is still an unknown quantity. We'll see how that one turns out, but I"m hoping for a better showing than the MSAR (I need parts!). Personally, I'd wait for AXR reports or just buy an AUG.
By all means wait but my guess is it will have development issues also. As you say it's a roll of the dice and you may not win with the AXR. The MSAR showing is actually remarkable good. I have seen the early FTF/FTE issues with a limited number of rifles and two issues with scopes, including my own. All were fixed by MSAR, CORRECTLY, not like the SIGARMS 556 fiascos with canted rails where the fix by SIGARMS was to grind down the bottom of the rails at an angle so they would sit straight, Oh, and telling the owners that it was within "acceptable tolerences." I have also heard a few reports that the MSAR 42round mags may not be totally reliable but once again it's a couple of reports and no info on what ammo was being used. MSAR is on the streets today and is working, it's as simple as that. AXR may well be a fine rifle, time will have to tell as it isn't out yet. MASADA may be a good one too, but then again it's still being developed. Lot's of good ideas out there and hopefully many of them will see the light of day, but my guess is like just about every other rifle they will have a few problems before they get perfected.

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