Taking the critical component of accuracy out of the equation and looking strictly at bullet performance:

9mm ball is about the worst thing going for a defensive pistol and is flat dangerous for several reasons.

Overpenetration is a huge issue as they do not stop in typical human bodies. They punch a 9mm hole inside and out the other. This presents numerous back -stop issues.

The for the components needed to shut down human function-either CNS (central nervous system) destruction, or massive fluid output. 9mm ball does not make a big hole, does not expand, does not "cut" and ball rounds tend to push things out of the way rather than cut them. Remember the key is air in fluid out. In the case of shots to the head and other CNS areas, most are armored by bone. FMJ ball ammo has a bad tendency to not penetrate these areas and instead be deflected off of them.

I have spend enough time on first hand shooting investigations to guarantee that ball is the worst thing you can put in a defensive pistol. For what its worth, based on years of autopsy's, shooting investigations (first hand, not via second hand cop stories from the gun rags), and on going communications with the top wound ballistics folks, the best recipe I have found for a defensive pistol round for use on humans is the heaviest bullet in any caliber driven at a moderate velocity using the best hollow-point available (this changes with technology). For pistols, this would run the 230 gr. in .45, 180 in .40, and 147 gr. in 9mm. HST's and Gold Dots seem to be the top rounds currently. In the case of the P7, 147's over function the system. When you drop to a lower bullet weight a reasonable boost in velocity can make up for a little weight. In this case the 124 range +P bullets should be the best bet in the P7. Driving lighter bullets a very high velocities has not proven to be as reliable as the heavier bullet at moderate velocities in my experience.

People will argue this all day long. If you want to pick bullets based on magazine articles by folks who have never actually shot anyone or done a first hand investigation, or internet theory, cool, its your life. With that said, I don't care what side of the fence you are on, I don't know anyone who would ever recommend a ball round in 9mm. Usually, the only folks who carry them have to and don't choose to.

I agree with you 100%.

124 Gold dots at 1300fps for me please.

The only thing to watch with some ammunition is actually driving it too fast. I am not familiar enough with double tap as far as seeing the gelatin testing from the lab guys I deal with, in conjunction with street performance to confirm the gelatin testing, to formulate an opinion. What I have seen in the past with ammunition driven too fast is that you can get one of two issues. The first is if it opens too quickly and either under penetrates or comes apart early. This is not an issue for center chest hits on people wearing a t-shirt, but becomes a big issue in many cases where intermediate barriers (usually clothing, bones from extremities or vehicle glass, etc...) are present and the rounds will not get deep enough to penetrate and destroy major organs. Another issue is when you present things like drywall and clothing in the mix and the hollow point fills, you can get an issue with the round now performing like a FMJ on steroids with the added velocity. Most high performance rounds are designed and constructed with a specific velocity range. Again, bullet weight can be offset by some velocity increases with the 124 gr. +P be an very good example of a very good performing round that gets close to the 147 gr. stuff without being excessive, and is what I carry in my P7's, while I use 147 HST's in my other 9mm's.

The double tap gel tests are as follows. (I also put them on HKPro)
I find the results to be quite impressive. Their 9mm loads actually outperform the .357 magnum loadings. Most loads feature the bonded core gold dot JHP.

corey006
April 13, 2007, 10:01 AM

Here are official gelatin results for all of the DoubleTap loads!

All of these tests were done using 10% ballistic gelatin provided by Vyse gelatin using all FBI protocols and 4 layers of denim and two layers of light cotton T-shirt in front of the gelatin.

DoubleTap 9mm+P Penetration / expansion

115gr. Gold Dot JHP @ 1415fps - 12.00" / .70"
124gr. Gold Dot JHP @ 1310fps - 13.25" / .70"
147gr. Gold Dot JHP @ 1125fps - 14.00" / .66"

DoubleTap .40 S&W

135gr. Nosler JHP @ 1375fps - 12.10" / .72"
155gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1275fps - 13.00" / .76"
165gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1200fps - 14.0" / .70"

DoubleTap .357 Sig

115gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1550fps - 12.25" / .71"
125gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1450fps - 14.5" / .66"
147gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1250fps - 14.75" / .73"

DoubleTap .357 Magnum

125gr. Gold Dot JHP @ 1600fps - 12.75" / .69"
158gr. Gold Dot JHP @ 1400fps - 19.0" .56"

DoubleTap .45ACP

185gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1225fps - 12.75" / .82"
200gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1125fps - 14.25" / .88"
230gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1010fps - 15.25" / .95"

Ballistic gelatin test results : 10mm Auto [Archive] - THR

What this chart screams out to me is that until you hit .45ACP there is virtually no significant difference in performance in any of the cartridges listed, though the 147gr .357 Sig loading has very nice numbers.

Another of my favorite loads is Cor Bon 100gr 9mm "+P+" Powrball at 1475fps. I have seen that achieve 12+" penetration and .64 caliber expansion in gel tests in the past. For that particular round the performance in gelatin is uniform regardless of the intermediate barrier.

To me 12-14" is ideal for self defense ammo.

Federal HST 124gr +P

I use Speer +P 124gr. Gold Dot HP in both mine. I have never had an issue with that load, but I do not give them a steady diet of that load.

I figured since I was carrying an "old school" pistol, I would go with "old school" ammo....I broke in to an unmolested box of 147gr. Black Talons !!!

I don't know if you caught it in the above posts, but as much as I like 147gr. in every 9mm I carry, they over function the gas system in the P7 and can cause some reliability issues. Black Talon was top of the food chain in its day, but has been eclipsed in performance today (although, you could make far worse choices). I carry 147gr. HST in everything except my P7 and BHP in 9mm. I consulted one of the leading authorities on wound ballistics about the P7 specifically, and his recommendation for the P7 is 124 gr.+P Speer Golden Dot. That or the similar HST load should be a far better bet.

Agreed on the Gold Dot. The top tester for the Pa state police told me that Gold Dots are magnificent performers in every caliber.

Federal HST 124 Gr +P

Would the correct answer NOT be: the ammo with which you train most often?
This is not a challenge, nor an opinion.

If someone trains with Walmart Fed 115g ($8.99), 3x/month, but keeps a couple mags of 147g 'Black Talons' for carry or HD, be surprised by the differences?
Certainly, few shooters practice with 'Talons', correct?

I'm hoping someone that has trained with both (or close) can provide guidance.

I have carried Federal 9BPLE 115 gr. +P+ in all my 9mm pistols ever since it became available. With that said, I have also tried the 147 grain loads and not been at all impressed with them. IMHO any standard pressure or +P 115 to 127 grain modern hollowpoint should be good to go as long as it reliably functions in your weapon.

I think a good argument can be made that there have been more people killed by 124 gr military ball ammunition than any and all other 9mm ammunition. Why argue with success?

Speaking from the P7 prespective, it is exceedingly easy to shoot accuratly so shot placement is probably more important than zombie killer loads. If you can't shoot accuratly, you shouldn't carry a pistol, ammo will not make up for poor operator preformance.

Because i don't want to kill my neighbors?

9mm NATO ball penetrates in excess of 36" of ballistics gelatin.

No thanks.

I shoot my full power Cor Bons just fine.

How well do Cor Bons work when who you are shooting at is hiding behind a car door?